NZ Darknet Market Forums

TradeDark

Member

Registered: 2023-04-30

Posts: 4

Is it time for a NZ only marketplace?

The number of NZ listings on Tor Market was at an all time high before the shutdown.

Unfortunately, the shutdown has also occurred during a time where there is rampant phishing and exit scamming. We know of multiple instances where people have been scammed trying to access alternative markets. We see this decreasing confidence in the process of obtaining drugs online for a lot of people and we believe this is a negative outcome for us all here.

We want to promote the safe use of psychoactive substances throughout NZ by educating consumers and giving them safe options to purchase said substances.

To achieve this, we would like to develop a new market just for NZ, focused solely on the trade of illicit substances. Hopefully, with a smaller reach and a narrow range of product types, it will attract less attention from bad actors.

However, there is no point in building it unless there are vendors and buyers to use it.

- What are your thoughts on the idea as a whole?
- What features do you like or dislike about other markets?
- As a vendor, what could be done to gain enough trust to join and list products?
- As a buyer, what are the difficult aspects of making a purchase?
- Would using exclusively Monero be a deterrent from using the market?

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

PsychedKiwi

Member

Registered: 2023-04-29

Posts: 2

Re: Is it time for a NZ only marketplace?

If the vendor buy-in price wasn't too much, I would try it out for sure. I haven't got much to list but am sick of constant issues with T2D and lack of response.

I prefer XMR but would be worried that it might put off buyers that aren't aware of the benefits over BTC.

CannabisChameleon

Banned

Registered: 2022-08-21

Posts: 49

Re: Is it time for a NZ only marketplace?

- Preferably a new dark market would have to be set up by someone with proven experience and a trusted reputation,so users know its just not a honey trap set up by law enforcement or a scammer.
- Having a New Zealand only market is intriguing but would it be viable? How much money would only New Zealand based users bring in?
- Having only New Zealand based users and vendors may make it a bigger target for the NZ government and police - because then it is a NZ problem, not just another worldwide darknet market.

CannabisChameleon

Banned

Registered: 2022-08-21

Posts: 49

Re: Is it time for a NZ only marketplace?

As a vendor
- Monero only markets don't really work because most customers prefer to pay in BTC unfortunately. Some NZ vendors tried selling on Archetyp (a Monero only market) but there was no customers there. A lot of vendors actually prefer Monero for OpSec reasons and convert to it anyway.
- I really love the build in convert/exchange feature which allows users to convert between BTC to Monero and vice versa that some markets like Incognito and Tor2door have. It would also be another way for a new market to market extract money.

CannabisChameleon

Banned

Registered: 2022-08-21

Posts: 49

Re: Is it time for a NZ only marketplace?

- Basically vendors go where the customers are, so if there are customers they will go
- Probably the biggest barrier to vendors joining a market is the buy in bond cost for new vendors, and having a high number of exisiting proven sales for experienced vendors.

CannabisChameleon

Banned

Registered: 2022-08-21

Posts: 49

Re: Is it time for a NZ only marketplace?

SORRY for the multiple replies - for some reason the forum wouldn't let me post them alltogether in one reply!

TradeDark

Member

Registered: 2023-04-30

Posts: 4

Re: Is it time for a NZ only marketplace?

Thank you for your responses. You both raise good points.

To address some of your concerns, it's important to highlight our motives behind creating a NZ only marketplace. It's not about the money, it's about enabling kiwis to safely, reliably and confidently purchase drugs online.

To achieve this, it requires more than just the marketplace itself. It's about educating our users around potential risks, providing tutorials and making this information available on the clearnet to funnel users to the site.

We believe majority of people in NZ are still buying drugs via text and various mobile apps. We would like to change that. There will always be a convenience factor for regular users to text and get their goods dropped off but for those who plan their sessions or don't have a reliable source, we want to be their first option.

To address your points individually:

You both mention buy-in cost for vendors being a barrier. How would you feel about paying off a vendor bond via a higher commission, that is decreased once the bond has been covered?

It seems that XMR is preferred in general by vendors but BTC is preferred by users. While it is true that vendors go where customers are, the inverse is also true. If we can create a place where all domestic vendors can gather that is XMR only, we would have a far better chance of convincing users to switch to XMR. Would like some perspective from other vendors on this point in particular. Regarding BTC to XMR conversion on other sites, is there much lost in conversion?

The biggest hurdle for us is the trust aspect that you have highlighted. We don't have a good solution to this. Any suggestions would be welcomed.

Underbelly

Banned

Registered: 2023-05-05

Posts: 41

Re: Is it time for a NZ only marketplace?

We would be interested in investing in this marketplace if there is a need for outside capital. Full disclosure, we are a vendor team but we do not expect any special treatment for vendor account, only interested in investing if there is availability/need for it.

NZDMFmod

Moderator

Registered: 2020-10-30

Posts: 95

Re: Is it time for a NZ only marketplace?

It is a lot more expensive than you expect to run Tor sites, once they are big enough to be published on the directories then they get attacked constantly so there are a lot of data transfer charges and time spend writing software to block attacks and lots of servers to distribute load. The income probably wouldnt compensate for all the time to keep it running. If it stayed off the directory sites then there arent going to be those problems but then new buyers would only know it through referrals or the forums.

NZDMFmod

Moderator

Registered: 2020-10-30

Posts: 95

Re: Is it time for a NZ only marketplace?

- Having only New Zealand based users and vendors may make it a bigger target for the NZ government and police - because then it is a NZ problem, not just another worldwide darknet market.

Yes, this happened already to a Wellington market and the police took it down

TradeDark

Member

Registered: 2023-04-30

Posts: 4

Re: Is it time for a NZ only marketplace?

Underbelly, it is unlikely that we will require outside capital but thanks for the offer. Even if we did, it's probably in the best interest for us both to establish some goodwill first. We may offer buy-in opportunities once the market is established and if we need the capital to expand.

NZDMFmod, our infrastructure will be designed to handle DDoS attacks and be easily scaled from the start. We are fortunate to have team members well versed in this area as we see this as our primary technical hurdle and a problem for all markets. Ideally, our market will be released around the same time as Endgame V3 becomes generally available. This is an opensource reverse proxy/captcha solution developed by Dread and is currently being beta tested at the moment.

Could you provide more details on the market taken down in Wellington? I am unable to find any news articles about it. Also, does this forum ever go under attack?

NZDMFmod

Moderator

Registered: 2020-10-30

Posts: 95

Re: Is it time for a NZ only marketplace?

https://www.databreaches.net/wellington-student-arrested-for-selling-drugs-on-the-darknet/

Just my suggestion: if your people have the skills needed then they would make more or the same money working for legit companies. Its probably not enough trade volume with NZ only.

TheGuruNZ

Banned

Registered: 2019-04-23

Posts: 29

Re: Is it time for a NZ only marketplace?

Will you offer bond waivers for established vendors?

TradeDark

Member

Registered: 2023-04-30

Posts: 4

Re: Is it time for a NZ only marketplace?

NZDMFmod, while you may be right regarding money, if everyone had that attitude, there would be nobody to push the boundaries and try anything new. We believe there is a massive opportunity to increase the number of darknet users in NZ.

TheGuruNZ, established vendors will be able sign up without bond for the first few of months, until the site has established some reputation. Then a discount or a way to pay off bond through other means, such as higher commission. We wouldn't expect vendors to pay bond to a site that has no users or reputation.

Do you have any thoughts on the original post?

Last edited by TradeDark (2023-05-15 22:40)

CannabisChameleon

Banned

Registered: 2022-08-21

Posts: 49

Re: Is it time for a NZ only marketplace?

I think most customers prefer to use BTC as they aren't very tech savy (although it requires a certain level of saviness to use DNMs in the first place) and perhaps they are more familiar with it. There are guides on the DNM Bible but still I would say at least 70-80% of transactions are in BTC.

The primary barrier to people joining DNMs is that it requires a level of techological ability which most people don't have, so most drug transactions are going to remain via in person, or via mobile apps etc. Also a lot of dealers and customers prefer to deal with cash. Many drug dealers/users have existing networks with which to operate in. Most people that use DNMs because they don't have social networks/connections which they can buy/sell drugs. I don't think it is very realistic to strive to attempt to move all drug transations online.

Exchaning BTC/XMR on DNMs usually incurs a fee of 2%, I believe at market rate. A lot of vendors are happy to pay this fee for convenience.

The buy-in cost for vendors can be a barrier. Some markets require a bond in excess of $1000 and its not actually a bond but rather a fee as you don't get it back (and they state this). The TorMarket bond was very reasonable in comparison.

Last edited by CannabisChameleon (2023-05-16 04:40)

cspv1

Member

Registered: 2023-04-19

Posts: 27

Re: Is it time for a NZ only marketplace?

Yo this sounds exciting man, I was really bummed out when Tor closed, I'd totally dive into this if it actually pops off.
The concept as a whole is very reasonable, especially considering the specific circumstances.  Heres just my 2 cents on the topic as a vendor.

The vendor rating system is essential, this goes a long way in fostering trust among users and maintaining quality control, additionally implementing private mirrors for each user could substantially reduce teh risk of phishing.

To build trust with vendors, it would be beneficial to have a secure platform with clear regulations and robust anti-fruad measures. Both vendors and buyers need assurance that their listings and transactions will be protected.

Regarding vendor bonds, it could be beneficial to offer vendors a variety of options. The first option allows vendors to pay the bond in full; after fulfilling a specified number of orders, they can request a refund of the initial bond. The second option does not require an upfront bond payment but is instead entails a doubling of commission fees until the equivalent of the bond is covered; this would be non-refundable. The third option involves paying half of the bond up front and covering the remaining half through increased commissions, with the opportunity for the vendor to apply for a refund of the initially paid amount.

As a buyer, the process can sometimes be quite challenging. Navigating the interface, locating reliable vendors, and understanding secure transaction methods can be daunting for some. A streamlined and user friendly interface would go a long way in alleviating these issues.

The exclusive use of Monero might initally deter some users due to its learning curve and relative obscurity compared Bitcoin. However, Monero's enhanced privacy features could be a major advantage. Prehaps intergrating an exchange function into the platform that allows users to convert their Bitcoin into Monero would be beneficial.

Those are just some of my thoughts, but gotta say, its gonna be really challenging to actually pull it off, I actually fantasized about creating a market myself a few years ago, but I realised how ignorant I was after 15 minutes of reserach...

CollegeStudentPlug

Last edited by cspv1 (2023-05-22 00:00)

cspv1

Member

Registered: 2023-04-19

Posts: 27

Re: Is it time for a NZ only marketplace?

oh and I forgot to mention, I really am hating Tor2door with passion right now... jesus it is so dam fucking slow, it times out on me at least once every 30 minutes and it pisses the living hell out of me, Idk if it is because ddos attacks or what, but advanced anti-ddos measures would definately be nice, and also maintaining a robust website up-time is crucial.
I've always looked at White House Market as the GOAT of all DNMs, and I reckon most people who've used WHM would agree.