NZ Darknet Market Forums

UlrikaMonkey

Member

Registered: 2021-03-23

Posts: 85

Please educate me on Meth

I am surprised by how popular Meth is on Tor Market considering its reputation in New Zealand. I have never tried it nor do I plan to because of the negative stories you hear and the interactions I have had with people who were abusing it. I was brought up thinking the same about all drugs but here I am finding value from weed, MDMA and Psychedelics, so i am wondering how much of this is just cultural brainwashing and thought some of you could share your opinions.

I watched Paddy Gowers documentary on it recently and they were saying that Meth depletes your dopamine levels for over a year after using it, so I can't see how the drug could be used responsibly when that would seem to me to cause a lot of damage and would almost certainly lead to addiction. It's also quite expensive on the tor market (unless you need a significantly smaller dose than you would mdma or ketamine?) so how can people justify spending that much?

sigmasheep

Member

Registered: 2020-06-13

Posts: 20

Re: Please educate me on Meth

While I don't have any experience with the substance, I would recommend reading up on Erowid and PsychonautWiki. Smoking it, a common dose of high purity seems to be 10-20mg. See the links below, perhaps some others with experience would be able to supplement with some anecdotal/NZ-relevant information. Please consider harm reduction methods, dosage, and personal restraint due to addiction and potential for physical harm.

https://psychonautwiki.org/wiki/Methamphetamine
https://www.erowid.org/chemicals/meth/meth.shtml
https://erowid.org/experiences/subs/exp_Methamphetamine.shtml

Hamilton's Pharmacopoeia S03E02: A Positive Meth Experience
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SioZ2-fxhuw

wtfbbq

Member

Registered: 2021-02-17

Posts: 48

Re: Please educate me on Meth

Meth is an amphetamine, so think speed. Much of what you might have heard about speed basically applies to meth, amphetamines are party drugs, also used in WW2 by Germans and bomber pilots to deal with exhaustion. They don't feel simply like a stimulant, like you're "just not tired" like caffeine, they are euphoric, like psychedelics or e, but they're much more likely to be overused than psychedelics because they don't make you hallucinate so in that sense more like a coffee substitute and can definitely be used as a performance enhancer. You can stay up for days on meth with very little discomfort. Meth is commonly smoked while speed is/was commonly insufflated (meth seems to have largely replaced speed in popularity), though you can swallow, snort or inject meth, just like crack is a smokable form of the commonly insufflated drug cocaine. Dextroamphetamine is an amphetamine that is prescribed to treat ADHD in children, also used recreationally at times.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amphetamine#Enhancing_performance
"In 2015, a systematic review and a meta-analysis of high quality clinical trials found that, when used at low (therapeutic) doses, amphetamine produces modest yet unambiguous improvements in cognition, including working memory, long-term episodic memory, inhibitory control, and some aspects of attention, in normal healthy adults"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ephedra
"Of the six ephedrine-type ingredients found in ephedra (at concentrations of 0.02-3.4%), the most common are ephedrine and pseudoephedrine"
You may have heard of meth being synthesised from pseudoephedrine, like many well known drugs banned in the 20th and 21st centuries amphetamines have a botanical origin.

unless you need a significantly smaller dose than you would mdma or ketamine?

https://www.erowid.org/chemicals/meth/meth_dose.shtml

Last edited by wtfbbq (2021-07-05 12:40)

nztor

Member

Registered: 2019-04-08

Posts: 44

Re: Please educate me on Meth

The WW2 german brand name was Pervatin. But apparently the most effective drug the soldiers used was a combo of Meth/Cocaine/Oxycodone. The blurb from "Blitzed: Drugs in Nazi Germany" -  The Nazis presented themselves as warriors against moral degeneracy. Yet, as Norman Ohler's gripping bestseller reveals, the entire Third Reich was permeated with drugs: cocaine, heroin, morphine and, most of all, methamphetamines, or crystal meth, used by everyone from factory workers to housewives, and crucial to troops' resilience - even partly explaining German victory in 1940

Xar777

Member

Registered: 2019-04-30

Posts: 122

Re: Please educate me on Meth

Meth is an amphetamine, so think speed.

As a regular speed user, I find this offensive!

I can tell you that meth is FAR more addictive than speed and the effect is not the same, it's more potent by weight, lasts longer and affects dopamine receptors but also serotonin receptors. This makes meth way more pleasurable/euphoric than regular amp. Meth can also become neurotoxic at sufficiently high doses and has a much rougher come-down than amp.

IMO if you have the willpower/non-addictive personality and can keep your meth use to the same recommendation as MDMA (so once every 2-3 months or so) then it can be a really fun drug. I think smoking/vaping meth is what fucks most people up, it becomes even more addictive this way as there is a bigger initial rush. People also seem to do way too much and get themselves in a real messed up/psychotic state, it's extremely potent stuff, if you have no tolerance, 50mg orally of good meth will have you flying for at least 12 hours, probably longer.

nztor

Member

Registered: 2019-04-08

Posts: 44

Re: Please educate me on Meth

the economics of prohibition results in the most potent substances becoming most prevalent. instead of a wide choice of options with different safety levels, it converges on the most dangerous supplanting everything else. If there was a drug twice the strength of meth, that would become the easiest to source. there is no middle ground - either take nothing or take the hardest thing there is. fentanyl replaced heroin, meth replace coke. can't choose the party pills that used to be legal, so now you are steered to meth.

wtfbbq

Member

Registered: 2021-02-17

Posts: 48

Re: Please educate me on Meth

Meth is an amphetamine, so think speed.

I can tell you that meth is FAR more addictive than speed and the effect is not the same, it's more potent by weight, lasts longer and affects dopamine receptors but also serotonin receptors. This makes meth way more pleasurable/euphoric than regular amp. Meth can also become neurotoxic at sufficiently high doses and has a much rougher come-down than amp.

Thanks, interesting, I had assumed amphetamines were all fairly similar, which I shouldn't have, that's like thinking all opiates are the same or all benzos are the same. Will have to try some of the speed paste from TM

the economics of prohibition results in the most potent substances becoming most prevalent.

I always thought ease of manufacture was a big issue, eg growing weed indoors or out is fairly easy so weed is commonly available, and you hear often that meth isn't very hard to manufacture as far as psychoactive chemicals go. Importing LSD into NZ is probably fairly easy and there's heaps on TM (edit: actually looking across the psychedelics section after Anom it's looking significantly leaner), growing p cubensis mushrooms is easy and there's 3 sellers on TM

Last edited by wtfbbq (2021-07-05 09:30)

nztor

Member

Registered: 2019-04-08

Posts: 44

Re: Please educate me on Meth

Meth is an amphetamine, so think speed.

I can tell you that meth is FAR more addictive than speed and the effect is not the same, it's more potent by weight, lasts longer and affects dopamine receptors but also serotonin receptors. This makes meth way more pleasurable/euphoric than regular amp. Meth can also become neurotoxic at sufficiently high doses and has a much rougher come-down than amp.

Thanks, interesting, I had assumed amphetamines were all fairly similar, which I shouldn't have, that's like thinking all opiates are the same or all benzos are the same. Will have to try some of the speed paste from TM

the economics of prohibition results in the most potent substances becoming most prevalent.

I always thought ease of manufacture was a big issue, eg growing weed indoors or out is fairly easy so weed is commonly available, and you hear often that meth isn't very hard to manufacture as far as psychoactive chemicals go. Importing LSD into NZ is probably fairly easy and there's heaps on TM, growing p cubensis mushrooms is easy and there's 3 sellers on TM

In terms of what gets imported into the country, the economics make meth the best option. Yes there are other drugs available but as a proportion of total drugs being imported it is majority meth because of government policy.

wtfbbq

Member

Registered: 2021-02-17

Posts: 48

Re: Please educate me on Meth

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methamphetamine
Melting point    170 °C
Boiling point    212 °C

When you smoke meth it turns from crystals to a transparent liquid which then begins to evaporate, any left over solidifies into a sheet after you take the heat off. I love watching it refreeze, you see where the name ice comes from. You can smoke it in the glass pipes with the bulb on the end (that you can buy on TM), or you can make a decent smoking device by emptying an aluminium can and cutting off the top leaving a decent sized tab opposite the mouth part to hold it by. Bend the tab that's used to open the can back and forth till it snaps off then bend the mouth part back to its original position. After the can has been opened the mouth bit is connected to the rest of the can by a tiny section of metal so you can heat it without it dissipating a lot of heat, plus most cans have a raised ridge or a depressed area on the mouth bit that makes a pool where meth can sit and won't run off. Might be a good idea at this point to cook the mouth bit (from the bottom) so any chemicals that can cook off do. Then put some crystal in the pool and smoke it through a paper straw or glass or metal tube (rolled up paper would do, those washable glass or metal straws would be ideal) removing the heat a while before your lungs are full if you're not going to finish the dose in one hit. Keep the tip of the straw close to the meth and inhale slowly and steadily, you won't miss any. Drink something through the straw or tube to get the meth that condensed in it when you're done. You can smoke vape juice pretty well like this too.

Unfortunately a small amount of meth seems to just leave you a bit jittery, you need a decent amount to get the euphoria. Some drugs are like this, I found bk-MDMA was like this, a small amount just leaves you craving which is unfortunate, makes it harder to manage, in a world where you're lucky to have access to a dozen drugs and that's including caffeine tobacco and alcohol it's still a useful entheogen

Last edited by wtfbbq (2021-07-14 17:30)

wtfbbq

Member

Registered: 2021-02-17

Posts: 48

Re: Please educate me on Meth

I did some more research on amphetamines. In short, Amphetamine and Methamphetamine exist as two isomers, the more active "dextro-" isomer and the less active "levo-" isomer, and methamphetamine has an extra methyl group than amphetamine.

Pictures of the structure of the amphetamine isomers are at the top of the wikipedia article:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dextroamphetamine
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Levoamphetamine

Similar for methamphetamine (there is no dextro-methamphetamine article):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methamphetamine
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Levomethamphetamine

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amphetamine#Pharmacology
"Dextroamphetamine is a more potent agonist of TAAR1 than levoamphetamine. Consequently, dextroamphetamine produces greater CNS stimulation than levoamphetamine, roughly three to four times more, but levoamphetamine has slightly stronger cardiovascular and peripheral effects."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methamphetamine#Pharmacology
"Dextromethamphetamine is a stronger psychostimulant, but levomethamphetamine has stronger peripheral effects, a longer half-life, and longer perceived effects among addicts."

"Racemic" meth or amphetamine means a 50/50 mixture of the two isomers.

A medication that contains both isomers of amphetamine in a 3:1 ratio is Adderall:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adderall
It contains four salts of amphetamine:
amphetamine aspartate monohydrate    25% – stimulant
(12.5% levo; 12.5% dextro)
amphetamine sulfate    25% – stimulant
(12.5% levo; 12.5% dextro)
dextroamphetamine saccharate    25% – stimulant
(0% levo; 25% dextro)
dextroamphetamine sulfate    25% – stimulant
(0% levo; 25% dextro)
"The mixture is composed of equal parts racemic amphetamine and dextroamphetamine, which produces a (3:1) ratio between dextroamphetamine and levoamphetamine, the two enantiomers of amphetamine. Both enantiomers are stimulants, but differ enough to give Adderall an effects profile distinct from those of racemic amphetamine or dextroamphetamine, which are marketed as Evekeo and Dexedrine/Zenzedi, respectively."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amphetamine#Pharmacology
"The full profile of amphetamine's short-term drug effects in humans is mostly derived through increased cellular communication or neurotransmission of dopamine, serotonin, norepinephrine, epinephrine, histamine, CART peptides, endogenous opioids, adrenocorticotropic hormone, corticosteroids, and glutamate, which it effects through interactions with CART, 5-HT1A, EAAT3, TAAR1, VMAT1, VMAT2, and possibly other biological targets. Amphetamine also activates seven human carbonic anhydrase enzymes, several of which are expressed in the human brain."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methamphetamine#Pharmacology
"Due to the high lipophilicity of methamphetamine, it can readily move through the blood–brain barrier faster than other stimulants, where it is more resistant to degradation by monoamine oxidase."
Meaning the extra methyl group helps methamphetamine cross the blood-brain barrier, also, methamphetamine is metabolised into amphetamine so if you compare the diagrams of metabolic pathways in the amphetamine and meth articles which are in the pharmacology sections they're quite similar.
"The amphetamine metabolite peaks at 10–24 hours."

Amphetamines have been used in the US airforce as "Go pills" and hypnotics are used as "No-go pills" to counter the effects of the go pills after the mission (one benzo, temazepam, which I know as the ingredient in sleeping pills, and two non-benzos are the hypnotics listed in the very short wikipedia article). The article states both that amphetamines are used and that they are no longer approved which appears to contradict itself:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No-go_pill

Last edited by wtfbbq (2021-07-15 16:40)

wtfbbq

Member

Registered: 2021-02-17

Posts: 48

Re: Please educate me on Meth

Ok even more info:
https://astralcodexten.substack.com/p/know-your-amphetamines
Doctor commenting on prescribing Adderall (75% dex, 25% levoamphetamine) and Dexedrine (100% dexamphetamine) and Desoxyn (methamphetamine, not sure which isomers), he says Dexedrine is more popular with his patients than Adderall and Desoxyn is more popular still.

Some methods of manufacturing meth produce a racemic mixture, some produce dextromethamphetamine, feedback on NZLDD's racemic meth is interesting

Quite a lot of info about meth/amp pharmacological differences:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Drugs/comments/3zm6ez/methamphetamine_vs_dextroamphetamine/